Following on from the PTOLOMY PSYCON- Loose Capacitor (1971) thread I just thought I'd like to get peoples thoughts on how the lesser known/previously unreleased music has been released on vinyl. While it's great to have all this stuff out there it does seem to me that the way it has been released has more to do with the period in which it has been re-issued than the original concept. I mean the Loose Capacitor 10" is very much of a 2018 feel - very thick carboard, photographs on labels etc. While the 80/90s reissues such as Edsel or Bam Caruso were very much of their era. No one as far as I can see has tried to recreate an exact replica of the 1960/70s style or materials used. Maybe this is now too expensive or impossible as the correct materials/processes no longer exist.

Some Lps such as Bodkin (1972) have had several re-issues none of which feature the original sleeve.

https://www.discogs.com/Bodkin-Bodkin/master/400640

The Arkama version is a site to behold-

https://www.discogs.com/Bodkin-Bodkin/release/9473764

So if someone has a particular re-issue that they feel works or is just way off the mark let us know. :smiley:

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your post.
This is a really good but hard to sum up topic for discussion, which is probably why nobody has left a comment yet. I've been thinking about such matters for several years and it's a very complex subject. You need to consider many things, such as:
a) What exactly is your motivation in attempting to recreate an exact replica?
b) Do you know the copyright status of the album and do you need the owner's permission to take on this task?
c) Can you obtain the correct materials in the same quality as the original [eg. artwork materials, lossless music files etc]?
d) Are you taking any potential legal risks, such as being accused of creating a counterfeit product for monetary gain by yourself or others?

That's really just the tip of the iceburg. I'll wait to see what others can add before returning and if/when I've more to say about it.

PS. I'm told the original Bodkin albums, it seems, have a plain white cardboard cover inside a brown paper bag! Supposedly, a record dealer 'came across' a few originals and made a cover to replace the plain jacket. I now have my doubts about the seller popsike.com's integrety, as it seems he has sold many Bodkin 1972 LP'S for varying prices on ebay - do your own research on this if you so wish, starting here -
https://www.popsike.com/BODKIN-WEST-CSA-104-LP/220629153092.html

Ptolomy Psycon vinyl reissue that I bought the album cover has thin cardboard. They did a good job with the reissue.
Shadoks label the album covers of there reissues have thick cardboard covers.

Thanks for the imput lads. Some great points there Steve. Thats the type of response I was hoping for.

I suppose what I was trying to ask (in my own convoluted way) is why we rarely discuss the actual material design of a re-issue? In a world where the music is instantly available, as are digital images of a record, many now crave the physical record. But we cannot go back in time and re-use the same process and manufacturing techniques of the past. In effect we are re-designing the package, which can work well when it's a new product like a CD or even a box set but the whole "vinyl renaissance" has produced it's own distinct form of record. Is this form the most appropriate one for 60/70s re-issues?


Vinylarchive - you are right, stiff cardboard would be a better description. Its not that it isn't a good job its more the type of job we now expect (see above).



Steve, about Bodkin there is a (nice) sleeve but only some of the records actually had it-

https://www.discogs.com/Bodkin-Bodkin/master/400640



Below is from a copy that sold for $2587 in 2012 (how true it is I don't know)




Wow!! Up for grabs is this ultra rare ORIGINAL LP from Bodkin with original printed cover. We know of only 2 original covers in existence. There are less than 100 copies of this 1972 private pressing

We have been told by Jean Jobses the co-writer of Hans Pokora record collector dreams books that this LP is the original and almost nobody knows of the original cover.

During a holiday in Scotland in the late 80’s a German record collector by accident met Mr. West, owner of the studio where BODKIN had recorded their album.

There were about 40 copies left, all without a cover and the German collector bought them all and a black / white cover was designed by himself.

From there the rumour that it was released without a cover, came into the world. There were some covers made which were flip back covers. However, we have the original and there were only a handful made.

This is a real one off GENUINE rarity and is one of the rarest albums ever released in the UK

I'm trying to get the gist of the question, is it more to do with what's the point of reissuing something on vinyl if it's not a replica of the original, same labels etc?? I can see that point, but albums that we on here mainly are interested in seem to cost a fortune, in some cases absolutely ridiclous! Maybe the reissue labels have to watch costs like everyone else, and we have to remember our specialist market which is mainly 60s and 70s psych,prog, folk sounds is in reality pretty small, so the profit margin for a lot of those mainly very small reissue labels is very tight indeed. As stevestuff has mentioned you also have copyright and legal issues not just concerning the music but artwork and design too right down to the design and colour of the record label. Plus there are many unscrupulous dealers just out to make a quick buck out of me and you. As for bodkin, this was originally a plain sleeve, which a dealer later designed a sleeve for it to make it more attractive to sell, I've saw about 3different sleeves for this album. There's a few instances of private pressings that this has happened with, it's when someone tries to sell and intentionally misleads that is wrong, pretending it did have artwork. That's just someone trying to con people. Like any business, there's folk out there don't give a shit about the music and authenticy of something they're selling, it's to make as much money out of you as possible. Down to gradings of the condition etc. I don't have that problem as I'm a cd buyer only. The market for psych etc is really ridiclous, I just shake my head and feel relief I never got into collecting original vinyl only. It's a bloody minefield relying on someone elses honesty. I'll just stick with my cd reissues, I'm happy with that.

Oh, come on Paul!
This is the seller who either has the most incredible luck in the history of every time and place in the entire history of the Infinite Universe - or is a cheating, liar - an opportunistic piece of shit preying on gullible people.
OR maybe he's sold his soul and his mother's corpse to beelzebub or to the highest bidder?!
Who am I to judge?
I opened my comments by telling you and anyone who chooses to listen about this dude. I encouraged people to make up your own minds by CHECKING HIM OUT FOR YOUR SELF!!!
For anyone with the attention span of a gnat and a memory much smaller than that of a goldfish, I clearly said:
PS. I'm told the original Bodkin albums, it seems, have a plain white cardboard cover inside a brown paper bag! Supposedly, a record dealer 'came across' a few originals and made a cover to replace the plain jacket. I now have my doubts about the seller popsike.com's integrity, as it seems he has sold many Bodkin 1972 LP'S for varying prices on ebay* - do your own research on this if you so wish, starting here -
https://www.popsike.com/BODKIN-WEST-CSA-104-LP/220629153092.html
*and elsewhere eg. discogs [* additional info added today].

BULLSHIT 1) 2012: https://www.popsike.com/Bodkin-Original-Psyche-Folk-LP-Private-Pressing-Rare-Original-Sleeve/110865749420.html
sold at auction for £1667.
"During a holiday in Scotland in the late 80’s a German record collector by
accident met Mr. West, owner of the studio where BODKIN had recorded their album.

There were about 40 copies left, all without a cover and the German collector bought them all and a black / white cover was designed by himself.

From there the rumour that it was released without a cover, came into the world. There were some covers made which were flip back covers. However, we have the original and there were only a handful made.

This is a real one off GENUINE rarity and is one of the rarest albums ever released in the UK"
=== ho, ho, ho! scammer exposed!===

From the same seller, 2 years earlier:
BULLSHIT 2) 2010: https://www.popsike.com/BODKIN-WEST-CSA-104-LP/220629153092.html
sold at auction for £1254
"This ultra rare 1972 Progressive masterpiece released on the privately pressed West Studios label is an incredible LP. Not only is it incredibly rare and impossible to find, but musically it is absolutely brilliant!!!

Side 1.

Three Days After Death Part (1)

Three Days After Death Part (2)

Side 2.

Aunty Mary's Trashcan

After Yur Lumber

Plastic Man

The condition of the lp is Mint Minus I would say. Pretty amazing to be honest, as I would expect an LP this good to be played and played, but even on the labels, side 1 has no spindle marks whatsoever and on side 2, only 2. But the vinyl is beautiful. It's impossible to find this lp anyway, let alone find one in this condition. I have searched through Youtube and found someone who has uploaded some songs off the Bodkin lp, so have a listen. Awesome music!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEeS1UX31Ko&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sucf_imF34&feature=related

The LP comes in a plain white inlay sleeve and housed in a brown envelope. There was no cover made for this LP when it originally came out. However, a record dealer many, many years ago picked up a few unsold copies of this lp and created a postumastely made sleeve for it lol. But the fact is, there was no original sleeve. This is how it was sold. At gigs and by mail order at the time, so I have been told."

=== ho, ho, ho! same scammer exposed again!===

So, I invited you and all others to DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH.
I even told you where to start.
I seem to be wasting my very hard to catch breath at times[emphysaema], talking to brick walls here!

"I seem to be wasting my very hard to catch breath at times[emphysaema], talking to brick walls here!"

I think you need to relax a bit Steve. Afterall it's only a record. Maybe you should try yoga:wink:

I'm so sorry Paul. I am such a miserable old sod at times and so damn rude. I'd had a lousy day and just felt more and more angry as the day went on. I found out my social housing landlord seems to be trying to take money from both housing benefit and me too [for the 2nd time], I managed to upset one of my carers who's from an African country and knows nothing of the 10 year civil war there which only ended 7 years ago and has no idea about two 14 year boys who were murdered in London this week and who's mind was anywhere but here.
As for yoga, to be able to practice any meditation you need to be able to calm the mind first and sadly I seem to have had my peace of mind stolen from me.

No problem Steve. We all have our bad days and see the red mist.
Take care.

First up, I hope that you've had a better day Steve. I know a little bit about your troubles and hope that the bastards don't wear you down.


"I just shake my head and feel relief I never got into collecting original vinyl only. It's a bloody minefield relying on someone elses honesty. I'll just stick with my cd reissues, I'm happy with that."

Back to Stuart's excerpt above, I'd just like to say, I don't think it's just vinyl that relies on honest dealers. There's plenty of dodgy, bootleg cd's around too. A couple that spring to mind are Mike Stuart Span-Leviathan "reissue" and a cd comp by Mandrake Paddle Steamer mentioned in another post. The MPS one is so bad that they even had the wrong names(just guessed)for some tracks.
Both are on Forgotten Jewels label.