Juno actually states a 23rd of August release for the Aardvark CD only,
https://www.juno.co.uk/products/aardvark-1970-cd/965932-01/
maybe they are updating their website

Lago distributor stated instead 13 September:

Lasgo Worldwide Media (Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/LasgoWorldwideMedia/)
·
New Releases Available to Pre-order✅
Seelie Court - Rock CDs, except for Dark🎸
These bands have all been lost for over 50 years and never before released, from the darkest depths of the Seelie Court archive🌟
Dark - Round The Edges
Greenfly - Satans Daughter
Aardvark - Aardvark
Marvelous Kid
399 Numbered Limited Copies👀🔥
Release Date : 13th September 🗓️

Juno still hasn't been updated, but pre-release orders with the September date are now starting to show up a various online retailers.

Just heard a rumour that four LPs are coming out in October pressed on Ecovinyl!! If this is the same stuff Billy Eilish used for her recent LP then its biodegradeable Polyethylene made from alcohol derived from Sugar Cane. There is unavoidable significant surface noise on these kinds of discs so probably better to stick to the CDs if they are the same titles. Anyone know anything about this? Feels like a bit of a gimmick to me.

Here's what Abbey Road and PMC speakers says about this revolutionary replacement for PVC - humbly suggest they know a bit more than some anonymous lackey posting for a competing label -

"The sound quality has been assessed by industry professionals such as Rob Cass, in-house producer at Abbey Road Studios, who was speechless when he learnt that it was made entirely from plants; and Peter Thomas, who confirms that its performance is indistinguishable from traditional vinyl. Like existing vinyl, it can be pressed in any colour in addition to black, and an added advantage of this new material, for audio use, is that it naturally dissipates static, preventing the attraction of dust."

Not an Anonymous Lackey Working for a Rival Label Steve, just a humble record collector who'd prefer you just to carry on making high quality vinyl LPs! So it seems you are doing this? Be good to know which you are releasing on this new format?

Steve Hoffman, pre-eminent audiophile, explores this in detail here:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/evovinyl-a-bioplastic-lp-replacement-for-pvc.1197521/

and Evovinyl themselves admit on their website:

"At this point, the background noise on the lead-in and space between tracks is slightly behind the very best PVC vinyl – although still ahead of much of what’s sold"

"Much of What's Sold" particularly from CZ sounds terrible anyway, like the everything £10 bootleg stalls at record fairs. And the idea that the background noise they refer to is only present on the lead in and the space between the tracks is obviously wrong, it's just maybe drowned out if the music is loud enough.

Sounds like a "work in progress" with significant issues to overcome.

Karl Devine gets namechecked a lot here. He's a Musicologist (not a scientist) at Oslo University. He's written a book basically about the way consuming music has always caused pollution, used energy, exploited workers, propped up lousy regimes etc etc. He majors on how streaming and digital consumption is really no better than vinyl or other physical product because of the enery consumed, rare earths etc. So making records out of polythene may or may not be, in total, less "harmful"than PVC but it will still be "harmful" in his opinion. CDs are maybe less "harmful" Personally I think the book is largely bunkum because all human activity has a cost and we're not going to stop enjoying music as a species.

Anyway, who knows

Webcaw - you have 21 current posts on this "forum" and all on the 'seelie court' thread, nothing anywhere else. Very strange. No comments of any constructive use about actual music.

THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPORTANCE OF BANNING VINYL FAR FAR OUTWEIGHS THE ABSOLUTE TRIVIALITY OF RECORD COLLECTING. Your opinion is thus not valid on this point.


Regarding so called bioplastics , they are in development worldwide and of varying types ranging from wood pulp derivatives to other plants. They are being constantly improved and you studiosly ignore the positive verdict of producers at Abbey Road. We are looking at weekly improvements and refinements.

All LPs will be made from non PVC material in the near future. This is fantastic news for the majority of people.

PVC is being phased out and will be banned within the EU by 2030. Face it, it's a done deal.

Vinyl/PVC will then be viewed as ASBESTOS is now. It's filth. Its destroying nature, wildlife, poisoning animals, and you. If you love it so much go and suffocate yourself in a plastic bag, nature doesn't need genetic dead ends.

Seelie Court has already ditched its entire back catalogue of vinyl, and is entirely committed to environmental issues. From day one the label has avoided unnecessary plastics. Dialogue with one manufacturer led to them banning shrink-wrap in productions.

The label is happy to be at the forefront of this.

Vinyl is already dead, you just didn't know it.

Seelie Court has an ongoing collaboration with a British R&D company and is probably the first label to switch entirely to non PVC. Major labels have already committed to follow this lead.

The material is under constant development in the best tradition of British Innovation and Invention. It is a world class creation , and will be fully refined and implemented 2025.

The vast majority of people are fully aware that Plastics Pollution is one of the most serious threats of modern times. Everyone reading this, all 3 of you, has plastics in your Cells. Every sane decent human being, all 2 of us, wants plastics banned. You need to catch up.

The suppliers of PVC Granulate to the music industry are variously under investigation by the FBI and pouring deadly toxins into River Networks. They are hated.

This is the filthy reality of vinyl. Its about to be wiped out.

The sound quality of recent developed materials is on par and better than PVC, with almost zero static and no dust as a result.

It's a revolutionary point in this arena, and should be applauded not criticised pointlessly.

The entire music business is in a dire situation. It needs innovation, positivity, and ideas, not poorly informed whining.

Vinyl LPs are absolutely toxic and intrinsic garbage - landfill sites will not accept them.

It is correct that Streaming, due to the massive amount of downloads, has a terrible carbon footprint.

You state " we are not going to stop enjoying music" as a species, that is in fact already happening, across all the Arts. It has been devalued, and is losing meaning especially amongst new generations. The stagnation and lack of ideas evident in the "reissues scene" and forums like this hasn't helped.

Meanwhile, the end of Vinyl is a massive positive and radical development. Some lead, others follow.

Hi Steve, the only reason I ever came on this forum is that its the only place there seems to be any reliable information about Seelie Court. That's it. Nothing suspicious(!). I don't go on forums otherwise. You don't have a website, don't advertise, there are rarely reviews, retailers announce releases and they don't happen. I buy them on pre-order, get refunded. I found this site searching "Seelie Court" and there seemed to be some news so I stayed with it. It goes without saying I love the music on SC and its been very disappointing this hiatus which seems to go on and on. And yes I'd like to persuade you to drop all this paranoid, apocalyptic stuff and get back to producing 10 amazing LPs a year. Do what you do well and leave the Eco-Politics to Greta Thurnberg and her mates, it's beneath you!

The following YouTube video by Benn Jordan is recommended to anyone who doesn't already know about the issues with Vinyl and why it's being phased out -

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ2czFuIYmQ

It's essential viewing. (His other videos on technical sonic matters may also be of immense interest)

Re "Webcaws" comment above, as Jordan points out in his video, even President George Bush signed bans on PVCs in children's toys, every sane individual with some awareness of this wants PVC banned.

It's a pity it's necessary to "bang on about it" but that's evidently down to the ignorance of some collectors.

Plastics are gradually being phased out, directives relating to PVC look to completely ban it by 2030.

So webcaws attitude would see NO LPs being made. Eg if you want LPs, you should be f*cking grateful an alternative to PVC has been developed.

Instead he cited a totally unrelated LP by Billy Eilish made of something else. And tediously referenced Greta Thunberg, obviously Conservation and Environmentalism has been around since the birth of man,its in the Myth of Prometheus, and industrialism has rightly been violently resisted since the so called Industrial Revolution screwed up Britain's Idyll, led by sensible chaps like Ned Lud.(ref Song by Robert Calvert on Freq?)

Only the astonishing stupidity of the buying public and greedy polluting scumbag music industry has allowed Vinyl to be sold unchecked, unquestioned, for so long.

To hammer it home -

Vinyl gives you Neurological damage, makes you impotent, gives you Cancer, affects your hormone production, affects menstruation cycles, causes genital deformities,changes the sex of fish,and is implicated in Autism in newborns etc.

If you still like your vinyl after reading that paragraph, go to your RAAC built home, sprinkle some Asbestos on your Coco-Pops, breath is some offgassing Dioxins from your LPs, and fuck off.

You can also type in 'PVC ban Europe' or similar key words and bring up hundreds of papers and reports about it, the bans are already happening, many in place, and being implemented. Hoorah.

Obviously it also affects PVC flooring, water pipes, windows, food packaging - its deadly stuff. The offgassing is Dioxin, used in Agent Orange and Nerve Gas. Burn Lps and you get Hydrochloric Acid.

Ever wonder why the 20/21st Centuries are full of mental disorders, migraines, autism, sexual defects, asthma etc ?

Most reading this are fully aware already and apologies for repeating all this, it simply beggars belief that the ignorance displayed in Webcaws post still exists.

We can only hope the WEF start requisitioning Vinyl LP Collections and hauling them away for industrial disposal...

Meanwhile, order some nice Sugarcane LPs from Seelie Court...

Well, thats quite a speech Steve!

Unfortunately its mostly wrong. I come from a family of chemists and eco-warriors so I know this! I had already read the ECHA report from November 23 ( an eco family member had a snipe at my vinyl habit) and what it actually concludes is that there is no health risk involved with making or using PVC itself but there may be issues with some of the additives, specifically some plasticisers and heat stabilisers. These have been largely phased out in the Eu and safer stable alternatives are available without loss of function. Most PVC manufacturers had made these changes voluntarily before the report was published. The reproductive and birth defect issues you mention are possibly related to DOTE and Ortho-phthalates. These are still used by one major manufacturer in the US so there is concern over imports but the US are likely to ban their use shortly. Regrettably the articles and websites you quote choose to ignore the reality and demonise the product, although Evovinyl admit “ PVC once made is very stable and not toxic”. In other words your record collection isn’t going to poison you guys! And Vinyl LPs will continue to be made. plastics are not being phased out!!

These sites are also an Eco-industry/lobby echo chamber, paying google to be the first few entries. If you do do the search you suggest you could easily get the impression that you then repeat, half a dozen independent websites sounding the alarm on deadly plastic! But they all say the same wrong thing. They simply do not relay the actual conclusions of the report they cite. They have their own commercial and political agendas and are clever in selectively quoting and presenting circular conjecture between themselves as fact. They call them selves NGOs which sounds really official but just means what it actually says: Non Governmental Organisations. Seelie Court could be an NGO.

Even if their doomsday scenario existed Vinyl LP sales in the US in 2021 according to the Evovinyl website amounted to 7,500 tonnes of PVC. The US accounts for around 50% of global vinyl sales so say the global total is 15,000 tonnes.That represents around 2% of the 6,800 million tonnes of PVC produced globally. In fact its far less than that because significant amounts of LP production are from recyled vinyl. So even if there was an unsolvable health/environmental issue stopping making LPs would have little or no impact.

So all this alarmism you amplify over Vinyl LPs is just that. Alarmism. And obviously if you are manufacturing or selling polythene LPs then you are going to present them in the best possible light and your competition (PVC) in the worst, of course you are.

But you are still making plastic, just Styrene like Billy Eilish, and you have no idea what the long term ecological impact of your LPs will be. No idea. Evovinyl is honest in that it doesn’t know yet what the carbon footprint of its discs is and whether it will be more or less than PVC. It may be better, it may be worse but its still plastic and still energy intensive. Also it doesn’t list its own additives, its very hazy about that and its entirely possible they are just as nasty. If you really believe and care about all this stuff then the obvious thing to do is just stop making records.

PVC can be almost endlessly recycled ( Rough Trade estimate up to 8 times without loss of function). It is stable and tough, even if you bury an LP it will take forever to break down (400+ years). But LPs don’t end up in landfill, in the UK recycling sites redirect them to people who resell them or bundle them up to be melted down and reused, most go to auction, second hand shops etc etc. unlike CDs which routinely get thrown away, can’t be easily recycled as they have 5 separate elements fused together and are principally a very similar clear plastic. Sure if you burn PVC you”ll get some very nasty stuff. Thats true of all plastics

But your behaviour really confuses me (apart from the obvious thing you seem to do over and over again which is to characterise your customers as borderline criminal morons at the first hint of disagreement):

In 2022 and 2023 you issued nearly 40 LPs with an average pressing of I guess 500 to 600 ie 24,000 LPs ( around THREE TONS of PVC) which you now say are Satans Spawn and will destroy us! What are you going to do about that? Surely you should be rectifying this terrible damage before you start producing more?? Maybe you should buy them back, you can start with my £40 super dooper Dark LP I can now get for a tenner?

And you are still making CDs!? ( see above). They are worse for the environment than Vinyl LPs.

And you make this big thing about not shrink wrapping. I have weighed a shrink wrap. Its 3 grams. An LP weighs 140 grams. Its the equivalent of eating a big mac and chips with a Diet Coke and then patting yourself on the back for your weight loss programme. It’s pointless virtue signalling.

Anyway I only started this because I wondered about what they’ll sound like. I expect I’ll buy them if they’re not on CD however crackly they are. But I won’t be buying them because they’re woke, and I doubt anyone else will. I said its a gimmick and its a gimmick. I’ll buy them because I’m sure the music will be great. But I wish you’d press them on PVC, theres a reason that was the plastic chosen in 1948 and still in use now: It’s the best one.

The Marvelous Kid CD finally popped through my letter box yesterday. I've not had a chance to listen yet, but I'm hoping it's a improvement sonically from the rips I did of the tapes many years ago now. Those of you who've ordered it, I hope you enjoy it! There's more unreleased material, which I hope one day will see the light of day.

Seelie Court has no interest in Pornography, posting 'spam' links , or this forum. ID Black Shuck is used exclusively only to RESPOND to any disinformation/lies posted on this forum about Seelie Court Records, nothing else, no other IDs are used to respond. eg the label has not mentioned new releases on this Forum, or questions about the active status of the label, as the Forum is of no interest.

To find who posts Spam on your forum you simply ask the Host Bravenet to trace the IP Address. Do that now with the posts by "X" , our bet is it's the same IP Address as "Webcaw" or "Stuart Robinson".

You should know that, it's your Forum and your responsibility - you appear to have no Guidelines, Registration, Security or Morality.

A few months ago you filled your forum with graphic images of Homosexual Pornography. That's your responsibility - did you even ask Bravenet to step in and locate the IP Addresses?

There is Spam on this Forum almost constantly, and has been before you even mentioned Seelie Court.

It's also feasible that the Spam is automated and results from programs scanning your Posts, eg the Posts by member 'Stuart Robinson' are replete with offensive language such as "Fuck" - that may well trigger Bots to post Spam.

You could easily create a Registration Process and Fixed User IDs to prevent the abuse of your Forum. We assume you don't because you like to hide behind Anonymity to Post biased nonsense.

You have previously stated that an earlier incarnation of your Forum was taken down years ago because it was repeatedly attacked by people who hated it, it's easy to see why when you allow idiots to post anonymously with any lies and disinformation, and then support it with your own ranting nonsense.

You also ran a Post some months ago considering taking down this Forum due to almost total lack of interest from the public.

Be assured, Seelie Court has no interest in ever posting on this Forum, but will react and dispute any lies and nonsense you allow published here.

It's absolutely no problem if anyone posts eg "the Hellmet LP is rubbish!' that's a legitimate opinion. But lies posted as facts by anonymous hacks working with opposing labels is not on.

The posts above by "Webcaw" and "Stuart Robinson" are filled with blatant, easily proven lies and disinformation. We will post correct information with links to prove facts later when we have time. Meanwhile here are a few examples -

"PVC is safe"

Fact - PVC was declared a human Carcinogen by the CDC (federal US entity) in 1974 after conclusive proof that it caused Liver Cancer in several PVC workers who then died.

But solely Following Governmental leads is pure stupidity - eg Thalidomide was still given to Pregnant Women for TWO YEARS after it was found to be unsafe. Webcaw and Stuart Robinson, I'm sure you'd be merrily telling pregnant women to take Thalidomide until your governments advised otherwise.

Facts -

90% of the global population want Plastics banned. IPSOS Poll, April 2024. (Amongst the other 10%, most will be illiterate or Webcaw and S.Robinson.)

8000+ music industry signatories to the MDE declaration for sustainability and cleaning up the music industry, that includes everyone from Radiohead to Andrew Lloyd Weber, and even your own Cherry Red Records.

18+ countries so far have begun implementing Plastics Bans especially single use plastics such as shrink-wrap. That includes USA, GERMANY, UK. It is the beginning of total band and replacements for plastics.

Seelie Court has not 'jumped on' environmental issues, it has been involved since Day One of the label, and as individuals since childhood notably in Conservation work and Animal rescue. The first releases were pressed on the BIO MASS powered presses and zero carbon Deep Grooves Plant. The label immediately refused to use single use plastic wraps, poly inners, etc.

That's the way to instigate change. Seelie Court has 100% support for the bio pressings from every artist we've discussed it with and also media, nothing the label has done has created such interest, with requests from Media, Magazine and TV for coverage.

The labels personal concern with Plastics echoes that of the majority of people on the planet. For us the issue is mostly the insidious, pointless death of animals and destruction of nature caused by Plastics Pollution.

This ranges from birds, cats, mice, choking on plastics, styrofoam pellets that expand in the throat or stomachs causing suffocation, death and maiming of larger mammals from discarded plastics, the total disgusting devestation of the oceans from discarded plastics, and so on. All of that is totally avoidable. Stuart Robinson & Webcaw, you appear to support the needless death of animals, destruction of the environment and needless poisoning of people and wildlife. You support single-use plastics that are thrown into nature and kill animals for no reason. This is not the stance of the majority within the music business, thank god.

Furthermore, you are against a positive change from toxic material to safe material. Eg Bonafide idiots.

The new bio materials, which are also being developed for CDs, are a pioneering, exciting, welcome, fascinating development that's supported by the majority. It needs publicity, and will then replace Vinyl.

Webcaw -Seelie Court is a teleological venture that supports another worthier cause in a long term plan. There is no hysteria from this side. There is no interest in discussing that here, and no possibility of any intelligent debate on this Trainwreck of a Forum. We are absolutely sincere. The lies are strictly from this forum. A simple example, in your initial posts you state you do not use any forums, you then go on to mention the Steve Hoffman Forums.

You posted comments here on forthcoming releases on a material that is subject to an NDA and unknown to you, not heard by you, and you negatively rated the audio quality based on an LP issued by another artist on a different material over 2 years ago - that's a pathetic joke and you cannot be taken seriously.

There is absolute universal condemnation of plastics - as someone who has watched creatures die choking on this obnoxious substance and the horrific waste dumped into nature, I gladly urge you to go away and can assure you we do not want anyone that supports pollution and toxins buying Seelie Court product. Your comments about NGO's are ridiculous. The WEF is an NGO and is currently orchestrating all western Politics. Macron, Biden/Harris, Starmer, Trudeau are puppets of NGOs.

The only legitimate point you raise is in Not Producing Any Product, but as mentioned, current acts of Seelie Court are teleological, and you are patently not someone who could intelligently discuss the concepts behind this or the labels endgame. Many of your notions of 'facts' are absolutely wrong. Eg simple points - 15k tons, no it's 30k tons.


Quoted Verbatim - Global Survey re Banning Plastics/ UN Treaties -


"IPSOS Survey 16th April 2024. (Note 17% UK pop. Illiterate, 21% USA pop. Illiterate)


Close to nine in 10 in favour of global rules banning plastics

Strong majorities across 32 countries agree with a range of bans on plastics and byproducts, while there’s slightly lower support for putting more onus on governments and manufacturers.

16 April 2024

Society Environment

Key findings:

90%, on average across 32 countries, agree to have global rules banning chemicals used in plastic that are hazardous to human health and the environment.

87% agree it’s essential/important to reduce the amount of plastic produced globally.
The same proportion (87%) say types of plastic that can’t be easily recycled in all of the countries where they are used should be banned.

More than eight in 10 (85%) agree it’s key to have global rules banning unnecessary single-use plastic products such as shopping bags, cutlery, cups and plates.

Almost three in four (73%) agree with establishing clear consequences for governments that break the rules of the United Nations final global treaty to end plastic pollution, which is expected to be rolled out by the end of 2024; The same proportion (73%) agree rules to make plastic producers accountable for reducing waste and plastic pollution from their products.

72% agree with ensuring all participating countries have access to funding, technology and other resources to comply with the new global rules, with those in Africa (80%) the most supportive.

Saying goodbye to plastic

The world is awash in plastic.

And our new Global Advisor polling, in partnership with the Plastic Free Foundation and WWF, finds many are ready for a sea change.

Majorities in all 32 countries agree with a range of bans, including banning chemicals used in plastic that are hazardous to human health and the environment with support strongest in Indonesia (98%) and lowest in Japan (73%). People in Japan are also the least likely (71%) to say it’s essential/important to reduce the amount of plastic produced globally while those in Indonesia (97%) are the most likely to agree. The Japanese (67%) once again are at the bottom when it comes to banning types of plastic that can’t be easily recycled in all of the countries where they are used while those in Indonesia (96%) are most supportive.

Despite single-use plastics being a part of many peoples daily lives for many years most look to be open to adopting new ways of doing things with the vast majority (85% on average across 32 countries) saying it’s essential/important to ban unnecessary single-use plastic products, such as shopping bags, cutlery, cups and plates.

Preparing to say hello to a new global treaty

The United Nations is one step closer to finalizing a global treaty to end plastic pollution that was first announced in March 2022. The finer details are still being hammered out, but the UN expects to deliver a legally binding agreement by the end of this year.

While there’s pretty strong consensus surrounding banning plastics and plastic byproducts, there’s slightly less, though still solid, support for rules around penalties for governments and manufacturers role in reducing plastic production and pollution.

Almost three in four (73%) at a global level support establishing clear consequences for governments that break the rules of the United Nations final treaty to end plastic pollution. The same proportion (73%) support rules to make plastic producers accountable for reducing waste and plastic pollution from their products.

Proposals to ban plastics and hold governments and manufacturers more accountable might sound nice in theory and people, particularly those in lower-income countries, are the most focused on how to make drastically cutting plastic pollution a global reality.

Close to three-quarters (72% on average across 32 countries) agree with ensuring all participating countries in the UN treaty have access to funding, technology and other resources to comply with the rules — but there’s quite the range depending on where one lives, going from 80% in Africa to just 61% in North America.

About the study

This 32-country Global Advisor survey was conducted between August 25th and September 8th in 29 countries and September 22nd and October 6th in 3 countries in 2023. Fieldwork was conducted via the Ipsos Online Panel system and, in India, via IndiaBus; among 24,727 adults aged 18-74 in Canada, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Malaysia, Morrocco, Nigeria, South Africa, Turkey, Uganda and the United States, 20-74 in Thailand, 21-74 in Indonesia and Singapore, and 16-74 all other countires"

Anyone who wants positive information about the issues of sustainability within the Music Industry can download an Info Booklet from MDE on this link, the booklet has a series of essays by industry figures beginning with BRIAN ENO . Eno has a tad more weight than "webcaw" et al -

There are over 8000 artists and labels who support this, practically the entire music business -

https://musicdeclares.net/gb/take-action


And this is an intelligent article in The Quietus about precisely why that same industry is, or has been, reluctant to instigate the switch from Vinyl. Obviously, it's a money issue, but it's now a done deal -


https://thequietus.com/opinion-and-essays/black-sky-thinking/green-eco-vinyl/

Specifically note reasons given for major labels to avoid this issue. Note that all people consider a seachange in attitude about to occur.

Yeah Steve. Eno. Not exactly Taylor Swift. And, yes some Wokes signing things secure in the knowledge nothing will have to change and off they go on tour in their private planes. Hypocrisy and Virtue Signalling in the Music Business? Who'd have thought it. And marginal highly political stuff like "The Quietus" who represent nobody and talk nonsense. Reality is the Music Industry is vast because people have an expanding desire for music. Monetising it, its carbon footprint the future of intellectual property, AI etc etc all big issues for it but until we go deaf its not going away.And it uses loads of energy. So does the film industry and the Internet and Bitcoin. Its called civilisation. BUT this has nothing to do with your little label and whether it makes PVC LPs or Styrene ones. Its barely a raindrop in the ocean. SO stop pretending. If you think PVC is so evil, clean up your TEN TONS first and then be honest about your Styrene: it uses around the same amount of energy as PVC to make, how polluting it is in comparison is unknown, the additives used (which with PVC historically have been the possible Carcinogens) are undeclared and could easily be just as bad and, most importantly the producer admits it sounds worse than PVC. Thats it. Stop kicking up dust, thats all there is Eco-Warrior.Maybe you should glue yourself to a Petrol Tanker instead.

Webcaw, you are just repeating lies, go away as you announced. Replacement for plastics in medical use is in development. Plastics are already being banned, you completely ignore that.

Plastics are modern, everyone got along fine without them. Myself and many others live without electricity or mains water, using solar, and other methods. It's a far better mode of living. When a product is found to be unsafe, an alternative is developed, that's human nature and progress. That's happening in Plastics. Pointless denying it.

PVC hasn't been maintained for LPs because those kindly industry types developed the best top quality material for your music, it's maintained because it's the cheapest garbage possible with maximum profits. Do an open uni economics course or something. Read the Quietus article.

You've stated PVC is stable, of course it isn't, it's offgassing nearly constantly. Ask the tens of thousands of collectors whose collections have been written off by offgassing. There are thousands posting about it on the internet. Is it stable when you drag a stylus across it? Of course it isn't, is it releasing nano and microplastics pollution ? Of course it is. You need to educate yourself, or get some common sense, or retire from your plastics business.

Eg Lego has an R&D dept searching for alternatives to plastic for decades, I believe their recent spend was 128M euros on research to replace plastics in their product. They've found recycling is not an answer. Why do you think such companies are spending on this subject ? Because they are aware their products are toxic rubbish, and the news is spreading, and they want to survive bans.

NDA relates to new product compositions and patents. It's not styrene, why repeat that when you simply don't know the raw material ? You can't be taken seriously.

What precisely is the motivation of someone who wants to resist a superior and safe product and maintain a toxic one? If anyone can't be taken seriously it's you, and by mindlessly stating that every single survey, every government policy, and the UN is wrong you just look like a delusional fool.

Pretty much every musical artist is on board with this, and everyone who isn't will switch simply due to the shame factor.

"Virtue Signalling" "Woke" etc are all meaningless modern terms you've read on Tik Tok or something. The label is not about self promotion, the owners are anonymous and have refused any interviews requested in magazines and media. You can address your posts to "Steve" "Steviekins" as much as you like, the label has never spoken to any collectors or dealers at all. You simply look weird.

Your total avoidance of the reality of plastics pollution in eg the oceans implies you have a malformed amygdala/psychopathy/no empathy. Single use plastics, no matter what the weight that you are obsessed with, are responsible for that pollution. They are being banned as we write. It's useless ignoring this or the way this is developing.

Meanwhile maybe you don't understand Teleology ? Further than that,the labels gameplan is not your business.

Webcaw - so you are onboard with Taylor Swift over and above Brian Eno ? You're a follower of Kamala Harris and that leftist entourage, it explains everything. While you do read like an Old Maid writing offended letters to a populist rag like the Daily Telegraph about Just Stop Oil Campaigners.

"Woke" is already a redundant term, it comes from afro American, possibly originating in a Ledbelly song, and was recently co opted politically as a cheap insult to score quick points over competition. Thus it's no longer used by that community. It meant 'enlightened' 'progressive'.

Regardless, environmental concerns are apolitical, however Seelie Court is entirely Right Wing and will openly state that. Respect for the beauty of the natural world is the motivation. This is historically a frequent Right Wing stance. Even in simple terms, you'll find the Landed Gentry have often best preserved the landscape. Hardly a "Woke" stance at all.

Re PVC you seem to ignore the toxicity of Chlorine, fudging over the Pthalates and Plasticizers instead.

If you are British, it is a tragedy that the red blooded pursuit of decency and positive change is dead in you, it's an embarrassment.

Oh well these crossed.I think you have missed the point on Taylor Swift. Its a relevance relativity point. Brian Eno is irrelevant in 2024 and only has any influence in an echo chamber of like minded irrelevants ie none. Taylor Swift is relevant and has colossal influence. She may yet decide the outcome of the US election by coming out for the Democrats.

Woke is a widely used and understood term. It has evolved from being a proud Virtue Signal to a weary insult. The Woke no longer describe themselves as Woke. Not sure it was Leadbelly who Woke up this morning first though.

Obviously Seelie Court is a Capitalist Enterprise producing energy intensive luxury items so one would expect the owners to be right wing/Neo Liberal economically, and this would explain this otherwise bizarre Left Wing/Progressive pivot on environmental issues. Its just "Green-washing" isn't it? Like the Shrinkwrap vs the TEN TONS of PVC.

Chlorine is fine. It's in tapwater, toothpaste and swimming pools. Not great as a green cloud rolling across Ypres but that hasn't happened in my record room!

this thread is priceless!
either of you considered a duel to settle it?

:joy:

I read in the sleeve notes to Bright Carving’s NTP “Upstaged” that Seelie Court’s reissue of NTP’s self-titled 10” on Deroy was “unofficial”. Is this true?

I have permission from Jon to post this regarding this release.

I was working with Seelie Court when the NTP LP 10” was re-issued (and actually I now own that copy!). What was missing was the envelope that contained the lyrics and the band details so there was no information anywhere on the sleeve or the label that would have helped track the band down and get their permission. SC did a fairly exhaustive search with what they had (Deroy, a Band Name, Song Titles) but nothing. So the label decided to release it anyway with a note on the rear sleeve explaining this and inviting the musicians to get in touch. This is known as “Anonymous Copyright” but it does mean the release was “Unofficial”, permission had not been granted. Incidentally Bright Carvings has released two “Unofficial” LPs in the same way: Monk and Music Box. In neither case, so far, have the artists come forward.

When the first copy of Upstaged emerged it DID have an envelope and it was possible to track down Robert Hickson. By then I had stopped working with Seelie Court and started my own label, Bright Carvings, and I secured the permanent, exclusive rights to all the NTP material (5 LPs and an EP), including the 10”. Robert was completely unaware of the existence of the reissue and more pleased than anything, he understood that without the envelope finding him would have been impossible. He agreed that it wasn’t worth making a fuss but, obviously, any subsequent release would be Official and on Bright Carvings. In due course it will come out (probably on CD as there are, I believe 600 vinyl LPs out there which probably fills that part of the market), but expanded with about 15 minutes of material from the Acetate EP that pre-dates it by about 6 months.



Hope that helps



Best



Jon

Thank you so much for the response. Keep up the great work you’re doing with Bright Carvings. I just received NTP and Tim Phillips. Both are excellent!

I have no horse in this race and I have no idea where Seelie Court are going to manufacture their “ecovinyl” but I do own the new ‘Selected Ambient Works II’ 4 LP reissue pressed by Optimal using BioVinyl (which I assume is something similar to the above mentioned “ecovinyl”) and it sounds fantastic. No problems with that one at all.

There’s some more info here in case anyone’s interested:

https://www.optimal-media.com/en/press/biovinyl/

Sorry, that’s supposed to read “EvoVinyl”.

I am actually me and not anyone else. As I said above, I have no horse in this race. I’m here for the music. Life is way too short for me to argue over trivial matters with complete strangers on the internet. To be fair, I have crossed paths with Black-Shuck before (on Discogs), and let’s just say we see a lot of things in completely different ways.

About eco-vinyl, I've just seen that Welsh label Sain is using this for some reissues like this:

https://sainwales.com/products/maer-olwyn-yn-troi

Here is a very interesting interview for Seelie Court fans;

https://www.psychedelicbabymag.com/2024/11/windlord-interview.html